Re: Corpora: Query/Discussion: Prep+relative who

Gordon and Pam Cain (gpcain@rivernet.com.au)
Fri, 02 Jul 1999 21:49:12 +1000

Dear all who are interested--

Steve Finch wrote:
>
> In message <199907010617.IAA19269@hilde.hit.uib.no>, Carsten Breul writes:
>
> >Do native-speakers of English actually use Prep+relative who? In other
> >words: Do you think that the sentences may very well be correct
>
> Native English speakers have lots of bad schoolday memories about the
> word "whom", I think! In speech, it sounds pretentious.

I agree -- and would have said that I freely use prep+ who when I want
to avoid formality or pretension. However, looking at the actual
examples, I'm not sure I could actually bring myself to say any of
these. I would opt for who + clause + prep ('postposed prep', I beleive someone else called it), as simpler and more common.
I don't think the examples 'correct', and tolerate a lot that others don't!

> > Or would you consider it
> >likely that there are printing/typing (or transcription) errors
> >involved here (omission of 'm' in 'who'), which distort the picture?
No, I think they were probably actually said -- I notice these sorts of
'ungrammatical' things by educated speakers frequently, and in formal
texts. Only a few of us detail-oriented pedants ever know which is 'correct'.

> (2), however, is perfectly acceptable; 'whom' sounds very odd there.
Funny, that one particularly grates at me -- I think it very much needs 'whom'! Perhaps further confirmation
that going by what we individually feel is not very reliable!

>
> These aren't typos; they do indeed reflect real usage of a confusing
> word, IMHO.
Ditto, or the usage of people who just can't be bothered trying to be correct, of
people trying not to be overly pretentious.

Cheers--
Gordon
> >
> >All but (8) are from written sources.
> >
> >(2) It's almost impossible to put him down in the tackle, and
> >there are few players about who you an [sic; probably 'can' is
> >intended] say that. (CB2: 396)
> >(4) It has one senior bishop, two suffragans, one dean, four
> >archdeacons, and 21 rural deans of who one is a woman. (ED9: 3029)
> >(5) They must be treated as adequate because they reflect the
> >statutory provisions in regard to appeals by persons upon who
> >intervention notices are served
> >(6) Instead, the sites are used by local residents, of who some 25
> >per or so come by foot
> >(7) Through its founder Molly Braithwaite, for who we held a
> >heartfelt admiration,
> >(8) I would also I think put in a word for the work of the joint
> >[...] policy panel [...] which is shared between this committee and
> >the social services committee because it seems to me that it is not
> >[unclear] for us to be thinking that there is a group of children for
> >who nursery education is necessary [...] or desirable and a different
> >group of children for whom something else [...] is necessary
> >
> >Dr. Carsten Breul

-- 
Gordon Cain, Teacher of ESOL
TAFE International Education Centre, Liverpool
Sydney, Australia
gpcain@rivernet.com.au